rise up Rochester - Latest Comments in Take My Credit, Please!

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:34:09 -0000

Zeitgeist Addendum is Socialist/Statist bullsh*t propaganda. The maker is a bumbling idiot and hides behind big words as not to show everyone that he doesn't know what he's talking about. His only solutions are new age "get released from religion and accept one world government" bull. I don't really understand the film at all.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

the Angry Anarchist — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:26:03 -0000

For more information, please watch the video, (Movie)? Zeitgeist Addendum. A MUST SEE! It is different than the original Zietgeist video. It's available for downloading @ the infamous TPB, or was it Demonoid? Possibly mininova, I'm not sure. Or just email me and I will send you the boot,
(leg).
the Angry Anarchist

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

sean — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:07:01 -0000

You don't seem to consider any alternatives with the usage of money. Currency is great to use but if it is monopolized by concentrated power then it is bad for the public. Currency is strong if the people can issue it and use it for their advantage as value. Also banks do not let people set their standards of how to use their money. If I can remember you are the same person to say that I am against investment. Absolutely not. I am against powers like central banks monopolizing the money supply and if you do not believe me just look at the dollar that you have now. Also look at www.federalreserve.gov. Look into fractional reserving. Money is a matter of ownership. If you do not own the money that you have because it is used as an interest bearing debt to a central bank then how can it be of value at all? This is the theme of the movie money as debt and of our founding fathers as well. Benjamin Franklin wanted America to be free of international banking control. If you own the money supply do you have to pay anyone for interest or debt? No!

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

sean — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:46:51 -0000

the value of our currency has went down 95% or more!

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

DAISY_YANG — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:34:12 -0000

Free speech may not be dead in America, but it sure is on riseupRochester.org. My comments on the board that is lamenting the death of free speech are being censored for being different than that of the moderator. I'm going to submit my thoughts on this subject (and on what is clearly a sham of a website in general) to the D&C, and get their opinion...

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

DAISY_YANG — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:34:03 -0000

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

DAISY_YANG — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:30:25 -0000

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:10:40 -0000

I say again, why are you using US dollars. Please stop. By using them, you clearly propagate the very issue you are against.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:15:03 -0000

1) Is there nothing you have as evidence that is not a video? Give me something to read. I don't have 47 minutes to devote to understanding your position knowing that I will debunk any way.

2) If money is value, and value can be lent, and when lent we call it debt (since its just a descriptive term, not a real object), by transitive properties, is not money = debt AND money = value AND value = debt?

Certainly, all accounting systems believes this to be the case.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:10:35 -0000

1) I did not present a straw man argument.

A straw man argument is to say your gold standard suggestion means you are against capitalism and I don't understand why you would be against the free market.

I took your suggestion and progressed it to its implementation.

2) We've been there before. This is all going backwards. If people believed the pegging was of the right value, and not higher or lower than true value, then they can just as easily believe a copper or plastic coin is just as good.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:07:10 -0000

Debt SHOULD exist, but our MONEY shouldn't be DEBT. Money should be Value and debt should be debt. Period. Loans are possible with the gold standard, to a lesser extent of course, which can be good but I agree should be left to another discussion.

Money as debt => http://video.google.com/vid...

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:04:22 -0000

This devolves into a discussion of why debt should exist. It's pointless. If you don't want a good you can't purchase today, we'll never need debt.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:03:05 -0000

"Gold Standard" does not equal "Use Gold Bricks"

Duh.

It just means your paper is pegged to something of value instead of nothing at all.

Besides - It would only take 1 gold coin to buy a laptop, 20 or so for a car and a couple of hundred for a house. I don't really imagine any situation where you'd carry tons of gold bricks around. (assuming the Straw Man argument you made)

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:55:38 -0000

3) Because the problem with the gold standard is the same problem as any currency. In times of crisis, both are useless. In times of prosperity, currency is far superior due to ease of exchange.

1) On to my point about lending, the Fed Reserve via fractional banking (yes, I know you guys have problems with this too), allows for lending of money.

Prior to this ability, a middle class was largely impossible, since where would they get the start capital to start a business?

2) I do not plan to go to gold as I do not believe the same as you. What I'm saying is that don't tell me about the evils of currency and continue its propagation.

What it comes down to, as your number of people employed point alludes to, is the creation of large middle class and the rapid advancement of people through various socio-economic ladders.

Quite frankly, much of this discussion rests upon the assumption that basic needs are met and now with our remaining money/good, what should we do about it?

However, the majority of the world does not live on this assumption. Hence, in order to keep poor people employed and able to sustain themselves, we do need low unemployment and the easy transfer of currency.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:07:18 -0000

1) Please carry around tons of gold bricks around and tell me when you'll be doing so.

2) Put your money where your mouth is. Convert your USD to Gold Bars and only re-exchange when you need to spend money.

3) Please explain how you plan to get a loan for anything. Colloary, article mentions higher average unemployment during gold standard than not. Explain why that's good.

Maybe later I'll value this conversation more to consider your other "points".

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common__Sense — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:07:24 -0000

1) Don't patronize me you pompous ass.

2) I can link you to death too, with real, relevant links. Sorry, no video. I hope you can read.

3) http://www.econlib.org/libr...
Two points:
a) Gold standard creates unstable economies:
"The fixed exchange rate also caused both monetary and nonmonetary (real) shocks to be transmitted via flows of gold and capital between countries. Therefore, a shock in one country affected the domestic money supply, expenditure, price level, and real income in another country."

b) Gold is inefficient:
"Milton Friedman estimated the cost of maintaining a full gold coin standard for the United States in 1960 to be more than 2.5 percent of GNP. In 2005, this cost would have been about $300 billion."

4) " Is it a coincidence that we have the highest level of personal, business, and government debt that the world has ever seen? " Answer: "Yes"

The Fed is not the only central banking system. Your "fact" does not support your conclusion unless the US had the only central banking system.

5) "What you could buy for $1 in 1913, the year the Federal Reserve was created, would cost you $22.10 today. Stated in another way, $1 today is worth 4.5 cents from 1913, or a lose in value of 95.5%."
Welcome to the basic notion of finance. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. Always and throughout the universe, this is true. Hell, substitute a gold brick for dollar. A gold brick today is worth more than the same gold brick in a year. Don't believe me? Give me a gold brick. I'll give it back to you next year.

6) Origin of banking. You are wrong.
http://projects.exeter.ac.u...
"The invention of banking preceded that of coinage. Banking originated in Ancient Mesopotamia where the royal palaces and temples provided secure places for the safe-keeping of grain and other commodities. Receipts came to be used for transfers not only to the original depositors but also to third parties. Eventually private houses in Mesopotamia also got involved in these banking operations and laws regulating them were included in the code of Hammurabi."

Or Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
The name bank derives from the Italian word banco "desk/bench", used during the Renaissance by Florentines bankers, who used to make their transactions above a desk covered by a green tablecloth. However, there are traces of banking activity even in ancient times.

"In fact, the word traces its origins back to the Ancient Roman Empire, where moneylenders would set up their stalls in the middle of enclosed courtyards called macella on a long bench called a bancu, from which the words banco and bank are derived. As a moneychanger, the merchant at the bancu did not so much invest money as merely convert the foreign currency into the only legal tender in Rome—that of the Imperial Mint."

7) The purpose of money is to provide an efficient means of exchange without bartering. If we can't start with that basic notion, then this discussion is pointless.

8) I completely understand your need to be right. You're not.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common Sense — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:19:27 -0000

Without a central bank, you would not have anything associated with a bank, since you would have no system in which to store and manage fed notes.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:17:03 -0000

This comment proves you have no idea what a central bank is. (Hint, you can't set up a checking account there.)

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Common Sense — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:18:55 -0000

Yes, yes, down with the Fed. How dare you attempt to stabilize our financial system and smooth out business cycles. How dare you allow a banking system to exist and support the value of our currency.

Fed, you are so evil. I wish you would die. Then I wouldn't have any place to borrow money, or store my money, or even a place to get money. I would just produce goods, carry them in sacks, and barter them for food when I get hungry.

Oh Fed, has it come to this? Creating money to relieve reserve requirement to allow banks to continue daily operations? How dare you think of the common man and allow them to continue using their ATMs. How dare you allow people to continue accessing their checking and savings accounts. Why don't you close shop and wipe out everyone's bank accounts?

What bastards, those Feds.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:13:20 -0000

Yeah I'd like to do that, maybe we could organize everyone to go along with the other meet-up groups in the area.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

sean — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:07:47 -0000

Come with me to buffalo, ny on November 22nd to protest the fed!

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:56:50 -0000

If a job was created for every time a politician said "shore up jobs" we'd have a great economy. What does that phrase even mean? What could a president really do? Save us all...

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Alicia O. — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:26:03 -0000

This makes me so mad--the talking heads are just trying to divide us Americans--especially the ones that blame it on people not paying their credit cards...

Then during the debates McCain and Obama prance around like they are saying something different from one another. "Shore up the economy!"
No, "Jobs!" No, "End the greed and corruption on Wall Street!" They are all just catch phrases.

Notice how the news of the Fed cutting the rate made the situation worse, and it has continued to get worse.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Karen — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:57:52 -0000

Can't agree with you more! How much more has to happen before people wake up and realize this country still has a Constitution.

Re: Take My Credit, Please!

Andrew S. — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:21:23 -0000

I couldn't agree more, Ethan. It's clearly not a 'liquidity crisis'. There is way to much liquidity out there and increasing the money supply more certainly isn't going to help. We need to end the Fed now and put Paulson behind bars, too.